NR- The Evens: who, what, and mostly why?

IM- Amy Farina, Ian MacKaye, a band, to play music.

IM- For me, all of my bands have been friendships and relationships, so this is just… I mean Fugazi went on this hiatus a couple years ago, and we decided we were not going to do any work whatsoever for an indefinite period of time. So we were like, “Okay, now what?” and Amy and I started playing music together and I was like, “This is great, I’ll play with her for awhile.” I don’t think of it so much as getting older, but rather I think it was an evolution, so I guess to some degree it has a linear aspect, and ultimately this is what I'm doing. It’s interesting because a lot of people are like, “Well this is so different from Fugazi,” but when I first started playing with Fugazi people were flipping because it didn’t sound like Minor Threat. I had such weird… people were like, “What is this music? Is it reggae? What are you trying to do?” and I was like, “I’m just playing music, its just music.” So the music I’m playing now, that’s just what Amy and I are doing, that’s what's coming out of us. I always try to approach things really organically and be really straight up and honest about stuff.

NR- Now that the record has been out for awhile, what has the response been like?

IM- Almost all reactions have been positive; I haven’t had but one or two negative reactions. It doesn’t mean everyone loves it, but I think everyone’s like, “Cool, interesting, what’s next?”

NR- Are you ever tempted to strip down an Evens song and just blast away Minor Threat style?

IM- There is no genre, it just is whatever it is. We will play anything we want. If you listen to the record, its pretty diverse, I mean there’s some pretty fast tracks, faster tracks, and slower tracks, just whatever.

NR- With Bush still being president it has given many bands an extended lease on life, at least an inspiration to keep on “fighting.” What do you think about that?

IM- You certainly don’t need George Bush to keep on fighting, he’s just…you're just dealing with the weather.

NR- Do you enjoy playing shows where people are sitting down on the floor as opposed to people running around in circles and dancing? Do you miss that?

IM- Umm I don’t know, its just new. There are aspects that I like a lot and there are other aspects I’m not so crazy about...I was in Minor Threat for instance, and also when I was in the Teen Idles people were just like jumping around, po-going around, boys and girls. In Minor Threat it got markedly more violent and people got a lot crazier and you had just basically boys in the front.  And then in Fugazi or Embrace...in Embrace there was this really crazy scene where these skinhead kids…they weren’t fans of ours, but they came to our shows because they were always looking for a fight.  And then when Fugazi played we really worked hard to try to make it for all people and not just the more athletic…And there were times we had shows where the dancing was just completely insane, and there were moments where I just thought “this is ridiculous,” like there were people getting injured.  At the same time, I play now and everyone is just sitting and everyone’s just like frozen, but I think that’s just part of it. I actually think The Evens are a dance band.  I think everyone’s just so used to the volume of what rock music has become, so it's hard for them to imagine dancing to something like The Evens.  I don’t know if it will ever connect with people...it’s a great irony actually.  But part of the issue has to do with the presentation, because we both sit down.  If everyone stands up, and there’s no stage at all, then it negates the sound because no one can hear us, 'cause we're already quiet as it is. So I don’t know, we’re still messing around with the form...haven’t figured it out.

NR- Is it all one package?  Say you're playing the kind of music where people are running around and dancing, and you're enjoying that - then when you're sitting down, are you enjoying that as opposed to standing up and rocking out?

IM- I rock out no matter what I’m doing, whether I’m standing or sitting. I’m always rocking.

NR- Could you ever see yourself playing the kind of music you played before Fugazi?

IM- I don’t know. I don’t think like that. I’m not a comparative guy. I’m not like, “Wow, do I miss this? Should I … Will I ever do that again?” It’s not really the way I think.  I’m just where I am. I’ve always tried to be in the moment, and this is what I’m doing.

NR- When I was younger I liked different styles of music, and as I have gotten older it seems like my music has maybe slowed down a bit, and I couldn’t picture myself playing the same music that I used to play, and that’s just for me and not even 5 years ago, I don’t even think I would enjoy it. And so my question for you is not whether Minor Threat will ever play again, but rather could you still enjoy playing that kind of music again?

IM- Minor Threat was an incredible band, and I still love those songs. I think Fugazi was an incredible band, and I love those songs. Embrace was an incredible band and I love those songs. I like it all. I have no regrets and I don’t distance myself from any of it. I fully stand behind all of that work. Now the problem is that…could I see myself playing Minor Threat songs?  Not really. Because I would have to be with members of Minor Threat and I can’t really see the four of us ever being on the stage again.  In terms of the style of music, I just don’t know.  I would never rule it out because I don’t think it’s a bankrupt form whatsoever.  In fact some of the songs, I think The Evens songs are really structurally…some are not that different from Minor Threat songs...some may be slower but some of them are quick songs.  The main difference, really, is because the volume of the instruments is quieter so there is no requirement for me to yell and I think that is the fundamental difference.  And that is what probably makes people think, “Hey, this is extremely fucking different.”  It’s okay if it’s different.  When I first started playing I played bass in the Teen Idles, and in Minor Threat I sang, and then in Embrace I sang again but it was really different, and then I played guitar in Fugazi and I sang and that was different than Minor Threat and Embrace. And now I’m in The Evens and it’s always evolving and changing.  I don’t necessarily think that I like slower and quieter songs now...I’ve always liked slow and quiet songs, but I think that the format of the music that Amy and I make is just different.  I still love fast music.  Just recently, I got some early Clash demos, and I’m not a crazy Clash fan but damn I like this thing, it’s great.

NR- So do you think that people are out to get you?

IM- I don’t really feel that people are out to get me. But I do feel like there is this conflict journalism, which is really the idea that there has to be conflict in everything. There are people who definitely approach it like, “I've got to be confrontational with him, and by being confrontational that way I am going to get the best answers out of him." I don’t think that they are out to get me, but I do think that people are out to provoke a certain response and also I think that in some cases there is sort of a machismo which is an odd thing in terms of journalism, but I think that there is a machismo in terms of trying to sort of tough me out or something, or put me, set me in a way. So you are asking me, in general, do I feel that way? Yeah, to some degree I do feel that way, but I don’t feel that everyone is out to get me. I’m not at all paranoid about that. In fact I think that most people are my friends. In fact I think that everybody is my friend except for a few people where there seems to be a little bit of confusion.

NR- Do you think that people understand what you are about?

IM- Uh, no.  I think that people have ideas about me but I don’t think that anyone…I am a largely misinterpreted person. I think that people think that I am super aggressive, really angry.  I don’t think that I am any of those things.

NR- So those are the wrong ideas, what are the right ideas? What do you stand for?

IM- I don’t use the term “what am I about?” I’m a person…I’m me. I feel like I’m tolerant, but that’s not what I’m about.  I don’t think in terms like that.  I just think of people as people and I’m a person.  I live my life in a way that is thoughtful...I’ve thought about things and I have certain kinds of principles that I operate on.  But they are my principles...they aren’t necessarily what I think everyone else should do.   I do think that everyone should be thoughtful. I do think that everyone should consider.  It’s always startling to me how people sometimes seem to be so oblivious or just don’t really want to consider.  For instance, there have been people over the years who have written or done things to me or about me that are very hurtful. You know? And I think it’s extremely interesting that in their mind there is no issue because they tell me that it is not personal, they are mostly just trying to confront or critique people who think of me as a god.  What I always think is that you don’t throw rocks at human beings, you only throw rocks at inanimate objects, unless you intend to hurt.  So you are throwing rocks at me, and they don’t think that I’m going to hurt, so they must think that I’m a god.  They are reinforcing the idea that I am impervious to those kinds of attacks. But obviously if someone said something really ugly about me it’s going to hurt my feelings.

NR- What is important in your life- music, family, friends, God, label, message? That’s what I mean when I ask what you are about.

IM- I’m not a list person. I don’t think in terms of lists. Obviously my family is completely central. As my family I also include my friends, my sort of extended family. I am really committed to the idea of my community. I’m really really committed to that. That’s mostly because I am always looking for a context and I want to be a part of something. I think that growing up in Washington D.C., this is an unusual place, because unlike the most of the rest of the country…every four years you have another government coming in, you have all of these political people coming and going, you have tons of college students, all of these lawyers who come in and lobbyists.  People who come here to make their name and then they go back to wherever they came from.  So if you think about it, Washington is a very tidal place of people coming in and going out. If you are of here, if you are from here, and if you want to have a sense of any kind of roots or community you have to hang on tight or else you get washed away.  Because of that I take my family really, really seriously.  My family is small, I have no aunts, no uncles, no cousins, and my brother got married in 1998 and that was the first in-law I ever had.  My brother and Lilly had a daughter in 2002 and that is the first new MacKaye in thirty-four years.  And my mom died last year, so it’s sort of like we are a small unit, but we hang on tight.  We have dinner every Sunday night at my dad’s house.

NR- If you had the opportunity to speak to every American would you take that opportunity?

IM- Probably, because it is such a surreal notion. Why not?

NR- What would you say to them?

IM- I have no idea. That would only be the result of that actually coming to pass.

NR- So there is nothing really driving you? So there is nothing you would really want to convey to the masses?

IM- I think there is. I think that my music is what I want to convey to whoever wants to hear it.  I don’t think of music as some kind of platter on which I have to put some precious fruit.  I think of music as a precious fruit, period.

NR- Looking back at all of the songs that you have written and taken part in, are there any ideas or jokes or lines that make you cringe when you hear it?

IM- Not really.  I think that in the context in which the songs were written I don’t have any regrets. I understand that time has shed a different kind of light on some of the songs. For instance, Minor Threat lyrics- by and large when I wrote those songs I was thinking about my fifty friends in and around Wilson High School…that's who I was singing to. It didn’t occur to me that 1) I would ever make a record, or 2) that people would hear the record outside of Washington, or 3) that I would be talking about it 25 years later with a guy in California. These are just not things that I would have thought about, how could I? How could I have ever known? There was just no way for me to know. I wrote those songs and lyrics and I love those lyrics and I stand behind those lyrics. I was not thinking in the larger context. So I will give you a specific example, for instance, a song like “Straight Edge.”  That was a song I wrote to my friends who were giving me shit for not drinking.  That’s what that song is about.  So I was singing specifically to friends in my circle who were making fun of me for not drinking.  So I wrote this angry song to them.  When people outside of Washington heard it, they heard it in a different light.  Another example, Minor Threat has a song called “Guilty of Being White.”  I grew up in Washington D.C., and at the time I was growing up it was 70 or 75 percent black, I went to a junior high school that was 95 percent black and I was beaten up for being a white kid.  I wrote a song about how I thought it was wrong to beat me up for the color of my skin.  Writing a song that was an anti-racist song.  And yet fifteen years after I wrote that song I was in Poland and I had a white power skinhead guy thank me for writing such a great song about the white race.  So you can see that the context has a lot to do with everything. In some ways to answer your question I feel like to hear this lyric I’m like “Wow, I wouldn’t write those lyrics the same way again.” But I wouldn’t have the opportunity anyway. I love those songs. I stand behind them all.

NR- What would you consider to be your greatest accomplishment?

IM- I don’t tally those things up. I’m happy to discuss certain aspects of my past but I don’t really sum up what I’ve done because I’m still doing. So I don’t have an answer for you on that one.

NR- You said you would be willing to let Dischord die if it meant that majors went down too?

IM- (laughs) I was being facetious.  I was just saying that if digital distribution really wiped out record labels, if they made it in a redundant format, then I just said if that’s what happens, that’s what happens.  If majors go out, if it wipes us out...that’s the way it goes.  Sort of like rotary telephones, technology just whipped their asses, so that’s the way it goes.  I feel like the record industry, and I’m included, Dischord is included, is a monopoly…if it goes away, it goes away.  If there is no market for 8 track tapes anymore, for a while they sold, some people enjoyed a little bit of a run.  The music industry has had a hundred years of it.  File sharing deals a deathblow to recorded music?  I don’t think it will anytime soon. But if that were the case I would accept that. I mean Dischord is a living thing. It will die, for sure, some day.

NR- Do you think file sharing is wrong?

IM- Nope. I would rather they support the label because I’d like to keep on putting out on labels. But in terms of my music I wrote the songs for people to hear the songs. I play music so that people can hear it. I didn’t play music to make money. If had to make a choice between having a dollar and having someone hear the song, I’d choose them hearing the song.

NR- Why not change the $5 show due to inflation? I know I would pay at least $7.

IM- Well, Fugazi did. We were charging up to $6-7. The overhead on an Evens show is so low because we have our own p.a. We make plenty of money.

NR- Is it possible for the Evens to ever get out of shadow of your previous bands?

IM- Sure.

NR- Are you really hoping that it will happen? Like a kid will get an Evens record and not even know what is going on.

IM- Yo man, that has already happened. You’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise. I’ll give you an example- over the years when Fugazi practiced a lot of our stuff, it was instrumental.  Have you ever heard the record “Instrument Soundtrack"? We were playing in England and this guy came up and was like, “Wow, your show is nothing like I expected.” I said, “What do you mean?” And he said, “You guys were singing the whole time.” He had only heard “Instrument Soundtrack.” I’m not thinking about that, we’re just doing what we’re doing. There are some people who really loved Minor Threat or who really loved the Warmers or they loved Fugazi.  They may forever think of The Evens through that particular filter- that is their particular deal. But there are always other people who are going to hear The Evens regardless of what we have done in the past, and there might be people who have never even knew about the other bands of course.

NR- The Evens have been playing many non-venue type places, like museums and art shows, what made you want to do that?

IM- I’m sick of playing in bars.  The irony is not lost.  By and large I present my art, my form of expression and furthermore I feel that people have grown accustomed to…I do feel that new ideas have a difficult time being presented because those settings...because they are businesses and they actually do have a concession they are selling, and new ideas don’t have audiences. One of the things that was forcing us into the bigger venues was volume. Those are the only rooms that allow people to play like that...you need sound reinforcement for the vocals.  This particular trip we played a church, a café with a six and a half foot high ceiling, the basement of some building in Princeton University, an outdoor amphitheater in New York, and a public library.

NR- Do you book those shows yourself?

IM- Yeah, I just call them on the telephone and say, “Hey, I want to play a show.”

NR- How is the general reaction when you do call an art gallery or whatever, do they think it sounds interesting?

IM- Sometimes they are like not into it, it just depends. Sometimes they are super psyched and other times they are not into it at all.

NR- I know you guys think a lot about sound, the fact that you are toning it down…

IM- Lowering the volume, we aren’t toning anything down.  We do that for a number of reasons.  There is some pragmatic aspect to it, which is like in terms of singing I can change the way I sing, it doesn’t make things…if you want someone to listen, talk quiet. Think about it. If you yell at somebody they aren’t going to hear you after awhile. If you want someone to come closer, talk quiet, they’ll listen.

Comments (6)

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written by zac, April 07, 2008

the further i go the less i know. One foot in front of the other. Ian and his music defy definition because of his personal integrity and commitment to the thing motivating him. Everyone has this voice, few have the balls to listen. There is no mystery. The music coming out just fucking rocks.

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written by Dave, February 21, 2008

Ian was in a very long-term relationship with Cynthia Connelly. He may still be, but I seem to recall hearing that they had broken up. She is a photographer and artist, co-edited "Banned in DC".

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written by stope, December 07, 2007

he does have a girlfriend, it is amy (evens drummer).

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written by Chad Gordon, November 27, 2007

I love Ian McKaye's work. Minor threat, fugazi, all that. I wonder if he has ever had a girlfriend or has kids or what? Maybe people don't ask those questions or maybe he just won't answer. Wassup Ian?

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written by Adam, November 08, 2007

Fugazi does rock, I'm kind of tired of that bullshit saying they're emo. I have never ever heard a Fugazi song tell me to cut my wrist. If anything, they're just a punk band mellowed out, and a great one at that. Ich liebe Fugazi.

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fugazi!
written by Matt R, November 07, 2007

nice interview...fugazi rocks. just heard the evens for the first time

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